A bit late to the party, but came across your site and found this topic interesting. I'm a new writer and just completed the manuscript of my first novel. I'd never heard of the terms pantsing or plotter as a method of story writing. I'd probably put myself in the pantsing category but found that it has some downfalls. First, it took me over a decade to finish my story since I kept hitting walls and was unclear about how the story was going to end or even who the main protagonist was. The story was also getting too big for a single book. Someone suggested making it a trilogy. Immediately, a light went off and ran to plot a rough outline for the series. Within a couple of months, I managed to finish the draft of the first book.
So I'd say now I'm a bit of both a pantser and a plotter when necessary. I try to keep the outline somewhat loose to allow for changes or make a couple of different versions and see which makes more sense.
I recently watched a podcast with Andy Weir who wrote The Martian. He's a self-professed pantser which is how he wrote The Martian. I think he now combines both styles.
It's important to try and understand both methods to see which one better suits your writing style. I'd also recommend trying a shorter form: short stories or novelettes, if you can, so that you can really hone and perfect your narrative skills. It's much easier to restructure a shorter work than a novel trilogy. But if novels are where you are at now, then go for it.
I have been reading "Beginnings, Middles, & Ends." (A couple of times now). I don't have a clue what I am doing! Really, the bulbs were flashing so hard that it felt like a Hollywood premiere. But, somehow, I have been kinda, sorta, doing it...a little. I have re-read my stories based on what I am learning, and I see where I have 'ticked' a few of the boxes, but I have discovered why my writing feels 'clunky." I re-read the story that I submitted and considered withdrawing it for a rewrite, but it's been in the queue since January, so I may as well leave it. That said, I'd appreciate something that I can use for feedback, rather than/in addition to, a stock rejection e-mail. The old saw, "Ignorance is Bliss" truly applies here. The problem is, that through ignorance I held fast to the idea that I'd written gold, but a little edumacation learned me that it's just pyrites, and I need to dig deeper to discover the metaphorical "Mother Lode."
I feel like you show the contrast between the two approaches really well, highlighting strengths and weaknesses of both. I agree that there is a spectrum we all need to find our place on, which may well be different depending on the story we are telling (and the scope of that story).
I have just started working on my first novel, and find that I am leaning towards plotting (a background in software development might have something to do with this). Writing an outline (a few sentences per chapter) has given me a good idea of the story arcs and how they should weave together. I can see the spine of a story that needs fleshing out, and have a strong idea of several key touch points along the way.
Having said that, I am very much aware of that being a guide, rather than a law. So within each chapter I still have space to discover the characters and where they are going (writing much more by the seat of my pants there as I flesh things out). 3 chapters in I have already cut several chapters because they were going to be very obviously restating what had happened earlier, in a way that would undercut the subtext present in those earlier chapters.
As an interesting overlap, I did find that I was starting to get a feel for characters even while doing that outline. Several outlined points are only happening because one of the characters basically demanded that they do, and they were totally not planned. In some ways, it feels like a very rough first draft of the story itself, that was driven by the characters. And there were a couple of points where I had to solve some story related issues (answering questions about why characters would do some things / be some places) in that outline. It is nice knowing I hadn't written X thousand words only to find myself in a tangle that required a substantial rewrite.
Will this be a repeatable process for me? Who knows? But for now I am enjoying on going on this journey.
I write as I go from pure laziness and inability to sit and plot (I've been standing to write the last few nights I've had off and it seems to be working a bit better). I'm working on my ability to be patient but I'm not actually sure patience is working for my writing. I have a hell of a time with endings... so much so that Pressfield's "resistance" gets to me pretty good. I think King pantses too, and some of his endings are atrocious.
Pressfield, of the Stephen variety, plots. 3 acts. Ending first. I've decided I'll give it a try for my next story. I'll spend 90 minute and figure a good ending then outline 3 acts. We will see how it goes.
Thanks! I am learning a lot about writing from your, 'The Outer Deep.' Please continue! This whole process of writing is far more complex than I ever thought, and you lay stuff out in a manner that I understand. Now questions: How detailed is an outline to be considered a 'plot?' Is 'pantsing' a sort of stream of conscience thing?...If so, does ANY sort of preconceived idea of where the story is going, render it to be a result of the 'Plotter' process? For myself, I seem to all over the place, so I don't really know what to call myself yet. Example: A couple of months ago, I was watching an archeology documentary and a crazy idea popped into my head, and I wrote it down in my 'Idea Book' that my wife bought me an back in the Spring. A few days later, I moved it to Word into a pre-formatted template. Over the next few weeks, I'd look at things with an idea to it being an element of the story, add ALL of them to the Word page as sort of bullet points. About a week ago, the parts all fell into place and the story was 'finished'...all I had to do was physically commit it to metaphorical paper...In progress. Am I messing up here? I have six stories in different stages...but, none of them seem to have been developed in the order, speed, or 'feel.' Am I just making more work for myself by not following a specific 'formula'? I am signed up for a Creative Writing course at the local college that starts next week, so maybe all of my questions will be answered there. Anywho, thanks again and please keep posting these! You help me think about what it is that I am doing at this keyboard. Chuck Wadlington, Topsham, Maine
I am a technician by nature and nurture. I was a naval engineer, at Sea, EVERYTHING has a set procedure...and these procedures are followed or people die. As a hobby, I do woodworking. Usually functional things, like furniture. If plans aren't adhered to, the product won't function correctly. I work well within parameters. Probably the most "Liberating" writing moment for me, was reading the 'Submission' page gave me guidelines that I could follow. I guess I just need to know the size of my toybox to take on the trip so I have the room to fill it with "Dinosaurs in Rocketships!" toys. Too many and it's just a mess...no fun. Not enough to enjoy a good 'Saurian-Mammal War'-BORING.
Oh, and yes, pantsing might be thought of as a kind of stream of consciousness, but I think it's more of a type of immersion in the characters' POV (senses) and their motivations and letting *them* dictate the story, which will be driven by the subconscious. It can be quite surprising when your characters do interesting things you didn't expect.
So, I'm not a freak? I don't see letters or words in my head when I'm writing. I see what I'm writing about in my head. I kinda write a running narrative of what's going on. Sometimes it seems like I have the ability to insert myself into the story, but in a passive way, like reading over the shoulder of a player and knowing their cards, and everyone else's cards too. Is it really that simple? Daydreaming on paper?
I think it can be that simple. For me, and everyone is different, I try to get into my characters' heads. So rather than be a passive observer, I try to become them and see/hear/smell/feel/etc. what they do.
A bit late to the party, but came across your site and found this topic interesting. I'm a new writer and just completed the manuscript of my first novel. I'd never heard of the terms pantsing or plotter as a method of story writing. I'd probably put myself in the pantsing category but found that it has some downfalls. First, it took me over a decade to finish my story since I kept hitting walls and was unclear about how the story was going to end or even who the main protagonist was. The story was also getting too big for a single book. Someone suggested making it a trilogy. Immediately, a light went off and ran to plot a rough outline for the series. Within a couple of months, I managed to finish the draft of the first book.
So I'd say now I'm a bit of both a pantser and a plotter when necessary. I try to keep the outline somewhat loose to allow for changes or make a couple of different versions and see which makes more sense.
I recently watched a podcast with Andy Weir who wrote The Martian. He's a self-professed pantser which is how he wrote The Martian. I think he now combines both styles.
It's important to try and understand both methods to see which one better suits your writing style. I'd also recommend trying a shorter form: short stories or novelettes, if you can, so that you can really hone and perfect your narrative skills. It's much easier to restructure a shorter work than a novel trilogy. But if novels are where you are at now, then go for it.
I have been reading "Beginnings, Middles, & Ends." (A couple of times now). I don't have a clue what I am doing! Really, the bulbs were flashing so hard that it felt like a Hollywood premiere. But, somehow, I have been kinda, sorta, doing it...a little. I have re-read my stories based on what I am learning, and I see where I have 'ticked' a few of the boxes, but I have discovered why my writing feels 'clunky." I re-read the story that I submitted and considered withdrawing it for a rewrite, but it's been in the queue since January, so I may as well leave it. That said, I'd appreciate something that I can use for feedback, rather than/in addition to, a stock rejection e-mail. The old saw, "Ignorance is Bliss" truly applies here. The problem is, that through ignorance I held fast to the idea that I'd written gold, but a little edumacation learned me that it's just pyrites, and I need to dig deeper to discover the metaphorical "Mother Lode."
For feedback, writing groups are ideal. You should never expect feedback from an editor you submit your story to. That's not their role.
Another lesson learned.
I feel like you show the contrast between the two approaches really well, highlighting strengths and weaknesses of both. I agree that there is a spectrum we all need to find our place on, which may well be different depending on the story we are telling (and the scope of that story).
I have just started working on my first novel, and find that I am leaning towards plotting (a background in software development might have something to do with this). Writing an outline (a few sentences per chapter) has given me a good idea of the story arcs and how they should weave together. I can see the spine of a story that needs fleshing out, and have a strong idea of several key touch points along the way.
Having said that, I am very much aware of that being a guide, rather than a law. So within each chapter I still have space to discover the characters and where they are going (writing much more by the seat of my pants there as I flesh things out). 3 chapters in I have already cut several chapters because they were going to be very obviously restating what had happened earlier, in a way that would undercut the subtext present in those earlier chapters.
As an interesting overlap, I did find that I was starting to get a feel for characters even while doing that outline. Several outlined points are only happening because one of the characters basically demanded that they do, and they were totally not planned. In some ways, it feels like a very rough first draft of the story itself, that was driven by the characters. And there were a couple of points where I had to solve some story related issues (answering questions about why characters would do some things / be some places) in that outline. It is nice knowing I hadn't written X thousand words only to find myself in a tangle that required a substantial rewrite.
Will this be a repeatable process for me? Who knows? But for now I am enjoying on going on this journey.
Thanks Elgar. Keep writing!
Thank you. I have been afforded hope that I'm not messing this up.
I write as I go from pure laziness and inability to sit and plot (I've been standing to write the last few nights I've had off and it seems to be working a bit better). I'm working on my ability to be patient but I'm not actually sure patience is working for my writing. I have a hell of a time with endings... so much so that Pressfield's "resistance" gets to me pretty good. I think King pantses too, and some of his endings are atrocious.
Pressfield, of the Stephen variety, plots. 3 acts. Ending first. I've decided I'll give it a try for my next story. I'll spend 90 minute and figure a good ending then outline 3 acts. We will see how it goes.
Keep at it, George. It gets easier with practice.
Thanks! I am learning a lot about writing from your, 'The Outer Deep.' Please continue! This whole process of writing is far more complex than I ever thought, and you lay stuff out in a manner that I understand. Now questions: How detailed is an outline to be considered a 'plot?' Is 'pantsing' a sort of stream of conscience thing?...If so, does ANY sort of preconceived idea of where the story is going, render it to be a result of the 'Plotter' process? For myself, I seem to all over the place, so I don't really know what to call myself yet. Example: A couple of months ago, I was watching an archeology documentary and a crazy idea popped into my head, and I wrote it down in my 'Idea Book' that my wife bought me an back in the Spring. A few days later, I moved it to Word into a pre-formatted template. Over the next few weeks, I'd look at things with an idea to it being an element of the story, add ALL of them to the Word page as sort of bullet points. About a week ago, the parts all fell into place and the story was 'finished'...all I had to do was physically commit it to metaphorical paper...In progress. Am I messing up here? I have six stories in different stages...but, none of them seem to have been developed in the order, speed, or 'feel.' Am I just making more work for myself by not following a specific 'formula'? I am signed up for a Creative Writing course at the local college that starts next week, so maybe all of my questions will be answered there. Anywho, thanks again and please keep posting these! You help me think about what it is that I am doing at this keyboard. Chuck Wadlington, Topsham, Maine
Part of the process of learning how to write is learning how *you* write. What I mean is that there is no "right" way to write. Experiment with different techniques and find which one feels good to you. It took me a long time to find the right process, and even now I still jump around depending on the project. But I will say that it's easy to get stuck in outlining mode. At some point, you should commit to writing prose. Also, if you want a good book that breaks down story structure, check out Nancy Kress's Beginnings, Middles and Ends. https://www.amazon.com/Beginnings-Middles-Elements-Fiction-Writing/dp/1599632195/?&_encoding=UTF8&tag=reddwarf0e-20&linkCode=ur2&linkId=975387f9d4d9b523a2e1dc00c2b222ca&camp=1789&creative=9325
I am a technician by nature and nurture. I was a naval engineer, at Sea, EVERYTHING has a set procedure...and these procedures are followed or people die. As a hobby, I do woodworking. Usually functional things, like furniture. If plans aren't adhered to, the product won't function correctly. I work well within parameters. Probably the most "Liberating" writing moment for me, was reading the 'Submission' page gave me guidelines that I could follow. I guess I just need to know the size of my toybox to take on the trip so I have the room to fill it with "Dinosaurs in Rocketships!" toys. Too many and it's just a mess...no fun. Not enough to enjoy a good 'Saurian-Mammal War'-BORING.
Oh, and yes, pantsing might be thought of as a kind of stream of consciousness, but I think it's more of a type of immersion in the characters' POV (senses) and their motivations and letting *them* dictate the story, which will be driven by the subconscious. It can be quite surprising when your characters do interesting things you didn't expect.
So, I'm not a freak? I don't see letters or words in my head when I'm writing. I see what I'm writing about in my head. I kinda write a running narrative of what's going on. Sometimes it seems like I have the ability to insert myself into the story, but in a passive way, like reading over the shoulder of a player and knowing their cards, and everyone else's cards too. Is it really that simple? Daydreaming on paper?
I think it can be that simple. For me, and everyone is different, I try to get into my characters' heads. So rather than be a passive observer, I try to become them and see/hear/smell/feel/etc. what they do.